alleen forumleden met DSG

[GerardR]

beste forumleden.

dsg rijders ik heb een vraagje in een dsg zit geen koppelomvormer.

is het daarom als ik soms af moet remmen en dan weer was geef een klein schokje voel of dat het even duurd voordat ie de versnelling heeft.\

graag hoor ik ervaringen.

[Wilcoos]

Ik begrijp dat alleen forumleden met DSG jouw vraag mogen beantwoorden?

[Edition30]

Ik begrijp dat alleen forumleden met DSG jouw vraag mogen beantwoorden?

Ja, dat denk ik ook ja. Ik zou het antwoord wel weten.

Ik mag hier echter niet komen, dus ik ga gauw weer voordat iemand mij ziet.

[GerardR]

vertel

[GolfL]

Ik heb het ook, is een DSG eigenschap denk ik maar zo.

Zelfde als je bij een stoplicht optrekt. Als je nadat je je rem loslaat gelijk gas geeft, rij je ook niet echt vloeiend weg. Meer met een "schok".
Maar als je rem los laat, en een seconde wacht, en dan pas gas geeft. Trek je wel vloeiend op

[RobvR]

DSG is voor de mk6 doorontwikkeld. Ik zou het onderwerp veranderen in "alleen forumleden met DSG in hun mk6" ....

... heb je een 3 of een 5 deurs, want dan zou je .... nou ok, denk dat de boodschap duidelijk is

[wehoo]

DSG is voor de mk6 doorontwikkeld.

Ja... (is doorontwikkeld).. naar een 7-gang versnellingsbak. Maar niet voor de GTI.
(met als doel: zuinigheid. en dat is de GTI toch al niet.)

6-gang = "natte" plaat-koppeling,
7-gang = "droge" plaat-koppeling (kan (nog) niet tegen het hogere vermogen/koppel dat een GTI levert).

Info link (VW):
http://www.volkswagen.com/vwcms/master_ ... index.html

Info VW 6-gang DSG:
http://members.ziggo.nl/werner.hooger/v ... triebe.pdf

[wehoo]

.... ik heb een vraagje in een dsg zit geen koppelomvormer.

Dual clutch transmission, commonly abbreviated to DCT (sometimes informally referred to as a twin-clutch gearbox, double clutch transmission, or similar variations thereof), is a differing type of semi-automatic or automated manual automotive transmission. It utilises two separate clutches for odd and even gear sets. It can fundamentally be described as two separate manual transmissions (with their respective clutches) contained within one housing, and working as one unit. They are usually operated in a fully automatic mode, and many also have the ability to allow the driver to manually shift gears, albeit still carried out by the transmission's electro-hydraulics.
This type of transmission was invented by Frenchman Adolphe Kégresse just prior to World War II, but he never developed a working model. The first actual DCTs arrived from a joint Porsche-Audi in-house development, for Audi and Porsche racing cars in the 1980s, when computers to control the transmission became compact enough: the Porsche Doppelkupplungsgetriebe (English: dual clutch gearbox) (PDK) used in the Porsche 956 and 962 Le Mans race cars from 1983, and the Audi Sport Quattro S1 rally car.

A dual clutch transmission eliminates the torque converter as used in conventional epicyclic-geared automatic transmissions. Instead, dual clutch transmissions that are currently on the market primarily use two oil-bathed wet multi-plate clutches, similar to the clutches used in most motorcycles, though dry clutch versions are also available.
The first series production road car to be fitted with a DCT was the 2003 Volkswagen Golf Mk4 R32.
As of 2009, the largest number of sales of DCTs in Western Europe are by various marques of the German Volkswagen Group, though this is anticipated to lessen as other transmission makers and vehicle manufacturers make DCTs available in series production automobiles. In 2010, on BMW Canada's website for the 3 Series Coupe, it is described both as a 7-speed double clutch transmission and as a 7-speed automatic transmission. It is actually a dual clutch semi-automatic

bron: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_clutch_transmission

Het feit dat er geen koppelomvormer (Duits: wandler, Engels: torque converter) is zorgt ervoor dat er minder/geen verlies is. De volgende versnelling staat immers al klaar. Maar door te remmen, schakelt de DSG-bak naar de vrij.

Zie golfgtiforum.nl - topic:
http://www.golfgtiforum.nl/forum/viewto ... dsg#p15879

[wehoo]

DSG ontwikkeling:

Volkswagen Group produces DCTs under the Direct-Shift Gearbox (DSG) name, from the . It is used in all of their mainstream marques, including Volkswagen Passenger Cars, Audi, SEAT, Škoda, and Volkswagen Commercial Vehicles, and also its top-tier marque Bugatti. Audi originally used the Direct-Shift Gearbox (DSG) name, it now uses the name "S tronic" for its DCTs.

The first ever worldwide series production DCT was the Volkswagen Group DQ250 six-speed dual clutch transmission, with dual concentric wet multi-plate clutches. It was produced at the Group's Kassel plant under exclusive license from Borg-Warner for use in transverse powertrain installations, of either front-wheel drive or four-wheel drive (4WD) layouts. The 4WD versions are fundamentally identical to the 2WD versions, but the 4WD versions use an additional bolt-on power take-off unit to direct engine torque to the Haldex Traction rear axle. This DQ250 variant is used in a wide range of models: Volkswagen Passenger Cars (Polo, Golf/Rabbit/Golf Plus, Jetta, Eos, Passat and Touran); Audi cars (A3, and TT); SEAT cars (Ibiza, León, Altea and Toledo); Škoda cars (Octavia and Superb); and Volkswagen Commercial Vehicles (Caddy and T5 Transporter).

A second variant of the Direct-Shift Gearbox went into series production in 2008 – the DQ200. This consists of seven forward ratios, but the notable difference over the original DQ250 is the change from wet- to dry-clutches. This variant uses two single-plate dry clutches, arranged in a tandem design (instead of concentrically) and are therefore similar in size. The DQ200 is again for use in transverse applications, but is intended for use in smaller cars, with smaller displacement engines that generate relatively low torque outputs. When used in the latest Golf with the engine, this new 7-speed DSG uses roughly 6% (5.9l/100 km for the 7-speed DSG compared to 6.3l/100 km with the manual) less fuel than the same engine with a manual transmission and up to 20% less than a conventional automatic transmission. The original DQ250 also remains available.

Volkswagen Group subsidiary Audi AG have also developed an all-new DCT - the DL501, for use in longitudinal powertrains. Like the original transverse DQ250, this DL501 utilises dual wet multi-plate clutches, but unlike the DQ250, this variant uses seven forward ratios. This DL501 variant made its debut in the Q5, and also is used in the latest versions of the A4 (B8) and S4 (B8). It is also be considered for use in an all new A6.

Audi langsgeplaatste DSG
Audi gebruikt vanaf 2006 als benaming voor dezelfde versnellingsbakken S tronic.
Op 27 maart 2008 presenteerde Audi een nieuwe eigen DSG (S tronic) met 7 versnellingen. Deze is gemaakt voor in lengte richting geplaatste motoren en kan dus in de overige modellen van Audi gebruikt worden en heeft als codenaam DL501. Deze versie is aanzienlijk sterker dan de Volkswagen-versie en kan een koppel aan van maximaal 550 Nm. Reden hiervoor is dat de S tronic geen droge koppeling heeft zoals de zeventraps DSG van Volkswagen. De nieuwe S tronic kan in combinatie met quattro-vierwielaandrijving en kan een maximaal toerental van 9.000 toeren per minuut aan. De zeventraps S tronic zal vooralsnog alleen beschikbaar komen op Audi's nieuwe MLB-platform. Dit zijn dus de Audi A4, Audi A5 en Audi Q5.

DSG-werking:

"P"
P position of the floor-mounted gear shift lever means that the transmission is set in "Park". Both clutch packs are fully disengaged, all gear-sets are disengaged, and a solid mechanical transmission 'lock' is applied to the crown wheel of the DSG's internal differential. This position must only be used when the motor vehicle is stationary. Furthermore, this is the position which must be set on the shift lever before the vehicle ignition key can be removed.

"N"
N position of the floor-mounted shift lever means that the transmission is in "neutral". Similar to P above, both clutch packs and all gear-sets are fully disengaged, however the parking lock is disengaged. This position should be used when the motor vehicle is stationary for a period of time, such as at red traffic lights, or waiting in a queue of stationary traffic. The DSG should not be held in any of the active gear modes while stationary using the footbrake for other than brief periods — due to the clutches being held on the bite point, as this can overheat the clutches and transmission fluid. This position also allows the engine to be restarted (in some cars needing the key to be partially disengaged) which cannot be done in any of the active modes.


"D" mode
Whilst the motor vehicle is stationary and in neutral (N), the driver can select D for "drive" (after first pressing the foot brake pedal). The transmission's first gear is selected on the first shaft, and the outer clutch engages at the start of the 'bite point'. At the same time, on the alternate gear shaft, the second gear is also selected (pre-selected), but the clutch pack for second gear remains fully disengaged. When the driver releases the foot brake pedal, the outer clutch pack increases the clamping force, allowing the first gear to take up the drive through an increase of the 'bite point', and therefore transferring the torque from the engine through the transmission to the driveshafts and roadwheels — and the vehicle moves forward. Pressing the throttle / accelerator pedal will fully engage the clutch, and causes an increase of forward vehicle speed. As the vehicle accelerates, the transmission's computer determines when the second gear (which is connected to the second clutch) should be fully utilised. Depending on the vehicle speed, and amount of engine power being requested by the driver (full throttle, or part-throttle normal driving), the DSG then upshifts. During this sequence, the DSG disengages the first outer clutch whilst simultaneously engaging the second inner clutch (all power from the engine is now going through the second shaft), thus completing the shift sequence. This sequence happens in 8 milliseconds (aided by pre-selection), and can happen even with full throttle opening, and as a result, there is virtually no power loss.
Once the vehicle has completed the shift to second gear, the first gear is immediately de-selected, and third gear (being on the same shaft as 1st and 5th) is pre-selected, and is pending. Once the time comes to shift into 3rd, the second clutch disengages and the first clutch re-engages. This method of operation continues in the same manner up to 6th (or top) gear.
Downshifting is similar to upshifting but in reverse order, and is slower, at 600 milliseconds, due to the engine's Electronic Control Unit, or ECU, needing to 'blip' the throttle, so that the engine crankshaft speed can match the appropriate gear shaft speed. The car's computer senses the car slowing down, or more power required (during acceleration), and thus engages a lower gear on the shaft not in use, and then completes the downshift.
The actual shift points are determined by the DSG's transmission ECU, which commands a hydro-mechanical unit. The transmission ECU, combined with the hydro-mechanical unit, are collectively called a "mechatronics" unit or module. Because the DSG's ECU uses "fuzzy logic", the operation of the DSG is said to be "adaptive"; that is, the DSG will "learn" how the user drives the car, and will progressively tailor the shift points accordingly to suit the habits of the driver.
In the vehicle instrument display, between the speedometer and tachometer, the available shift-lever positions are shown, the current position of the shift-lever is highlighted (emboldend), and the current gear ratio in use is also displayed as a number.
Under "normal", progressive and linear acceleration and deceleration, the DSG shifts in a "sequential" manner, i.e. under acceleration: 1st > 2nd > 3rd > 4th > 5th > 6th; and the same sequence reversed for deceleration. However, the DSG can also skip the normal sequential method, by 'missing out' adjacent gears, and shift two or more gears. This is most apparent if the car is being driven at sedate speeds in one of the higher gears with a light throttle opening, and the accelerator pedal is then pressed down, engaging the "kick-down" function. During kick-down, the DSG will skip gears, shifting directly to the most appropriate gear depending on speed and throttle opening. (This kick-down may be engaged by any increased accelerator pedal opening, and is completely independent of the additional resistance to be found when the pedal is pressed fully to the floor, which will activate a similar kick-down function when in Manual operation mode).
When the floor-mounted gear selector lever is in position D, the DSG works in fully automatic mode, with emphasis placed on gear shifts programmed to deliver maximum fuel economy. That means that shifts will change up and down very early in the rev-range. As an example, on the Volkswagen Golf Mk5 GTI, sixth gear will be engaged around , when initially using the DSG transmission with the 'default' ECU adaptation - although with an "aggressive" or "sporty" driving style, the adaptive shift pattern will increase the vehicle speed at which sixth gear engages.


"S" mode
The floor selector lever also has an S position. When S is selected, "sport" mode is activated in the DSG. Sport mode still functions as a fully automatic mode, identical in operation to "D" mode, but upshifts and downshifts are made much higher up the engine rev-range. This aids a more sporty driving manner, by utilising considerably more of the available engine power, and also maximising engine braking. However, this mode does have a detrimental effect on the vehicle fuel consumption, when compared to D mode. This mode may not be ideal to use when wanting to drive in a 'sedate' manner; nor when road conditions are very slippery, due to ice, snow or torrential rain — because loss of tyre traction may be experienced (wheel spin during acceleration, and may also result in roadwheel locking during downshifts at high engine rpms under closed throttle). On 4motion or quattro-equipped vehicles this may be partially offset by the drivetrain maintaining full-time engagement of the rear differential in 'S' mode, so power distribution under loss of front-wheel traction may be marginally improved. On the six-speed unit in the 2010 Volkswagen GTI, "S" mode will not automatically shift to 6th gear... maxing out at 5th to keep power available at high RPM while cruising.
S is highlighted in the instrument display, and like D mode, the currently used gear ratio is also displayed as a number.